policy. >> rose: i wantto focus on foreign policy. so what is the challenge for the president in foreign policy? >> my discussions with him for the first book i did obama's wars and looking exactly how he makes decisions, it's very clear he does not like war, he has a deep aversion to war. his challenge in the next years is going to be convince people that even though he doesn't like war and he wants to avoid war, he will do it. he will use military force as necessary. the credibility of that threat needs to be very very high. >> rose: it shows that when we as historians look back, we never know what's going to come in these next couple years ahead. think about fdr, what maybe that he packed the cord and didn't do well but he became the leader of the allied forces even in 1940 before his third term and he mobilized the country for war and that's his huge legacy which we could never have guessed. world war ii breaks out. but i think the interesting thing about obama's first term on foreign policy was the one area where people thought h